?Starvation Mode and cals per day

[Miss Tickle]

Hiya, I've posted this in the Walsall Massive thread but am putting it here as I realise everyone won't read the sub forum ( am new to forums and a bit slow on the uptake!)
In order to get as fit and light as I can for surgery I started a low fat diet on 11.01.10 and have been sticking to 1000 calories a day. A few days ago I got the Rosemary Conley GI Jeans Diet and her kick start diet is 1200 calories a day for 2 weeks then you go up to 1500 per day. She reckons if you go below 1500 for more than 2 weeks your body goes into starvation mode, you muck up your metabolic rate and weight loss slows right down. Well I don't get it. Surely after wls the calorie intake is less than 1500 per day and weight loss looks pretty fast to me!
About how many calories are the post op diets and what do you think of the starvation theory?

 

[Twiggie]

It's certainly true that you won't lose weight if you don't eat enough food as the body stores fat and lowers your metabolic rate as it uses muscle tissue for energy instead.

The 1500 calories a day RC mentions sounds reasonable but I wouldn't go much lower than that unless you're doing the pre-op diet, which is for a specific time limit. Everybody's calorie requirement is different depending what they weigh, how active they are etc. I've given examples of typical calculations on other threads.

Even post-op people are generally consuming around 1500-1800 calories a day once they are over the initial few months and eating proper food again. If you're eating the right types of food you shouldn't be able to consume excess amounts anyway which is why they don't recommend calorie counting post-op.


Edit: Just noticed your stats are in your profile so I've done a quick calculation to work out your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) and based on a sedentary lifestyle, your body needs 2700 calories per day to maintain your current weight.

To lose weight at the rate of 2lb a week (recommended) your daily requirement is 1700 calories, so you need to eat more!

 

[Sambucca]

Great question Miss Tickle, and you are absolutely right, post oppers dont eat anywhere near 1500 cals a day in the early days.

I dont calorie count, but I have noticed, bizarrely, that the more I eat the more I seem to lose. I now try to eat as much as I can at each meal, and on the days that I cant manage much of my meals then I ensure that I include a couple of snacks.

 

[Silversurfer]

I agree with Twiggy on this - immidiately post op our bodies survive on the fat reserves alone, as that starts to burn away eventually you plateau as a defence mechanism to body wastage.

You need 1200 cals a day just to survive - that is to run your internal organs, brain, heart etc, if you get less than this your body takes from fat reserves and muscle mass, thats fine when your 25 stone, but once your down to around 14% body fat your body will struggle to find the spare fat and stop burning what it has to fuel your body

Sams right, when your eating the right amount of calories your body will continue to burn excess fat as its not under any threat, i read all the time here about plateaus and stalls in weight lose, and 9 out of 10 times its down to not eating enough calories per day.

 

[Silversurfer]

I had the sleeve op 6 weeks ago and went for my post op consultation last Thursday. I asked the dietician how many cals I should be eating a day. Answer 800 to a 1000. If I need 1200 for my brain and body to function what will happen??? Answers on a postcard please lol x

Its simple - whilst you are very obese your body can quite happilly live on 800 cals a day as its literally eating itself! long term your body fat percentage will drop and your body will go into starvation mode and you wont lose any weight aka a plateau.
None of this is made up, an educated google search will show you these details, and the facts behind why dieters plateau and stop losing weight despite a reduced calorie diet and slogging it out for hours in the gym.

 

[zetacatty]

Oooops, I didn't see this thread and answered it on the Walsall Massive thread.:gen144: Anyway, there was an article in the Telegraph the other day saying that there'd been a rethink regarding starvation diets and that they do work after all! They only had to look on this site to know that. Take care, Mxx

 

[Twiggie]

Oooops, I didn't see this thread and answered it on the Walsall Massive thread.:gen144: Anyway, there was an article in the Telegraph the other day saying that there'd been a rethink regarding starvation diets and that they do work after all! They only had to look on this site to know that. Take care, Mxx

Do you have a link to that please? Are you saying starvation diets work?? I'd like to see some scientific evidence to back this up first lol

It's this sort of minefield of misinformation that has led many of us into the situation we now find ourselves having followed stupid fad diets and believed ridiculous claims such as this

 

[Silversurfer]

Diets such as LL and CD do work if your able to keep up with the reduced calorie intake, live with the side effects of a 'seriously' reduced calorie intake and live without eating solid foods for months and months, these diets basically work the way i described above - i.e starve your body of calories and therefore force it to eat its own stored body fat to survive, this will only work up to the point your body fat significantly drops and you plateau ( be under no illuison, what ever diet you choose you will hit a plateau at some point)

what they dont do however is teach you anything about diet and nutrition longer term, which any successful dieter knows is the key to longer term success!
A reduced calorie diet wont discriminate between muscle mass and fat either, it will just take whatever to fuel the body.......the key to any successful diet is balance in the food you eat against the exercise you do, you re educate yourself to follow a balanced healthy diet and maintain your muscle mass by exercising, the exercise keeps your metabolism running faster and in doing so stops the body from being able to take its fuel from your muscle, so it takes its fuel from fat instead.

I have to say that in my opinion i dont honestly believe that liquid replacement diets work - if they did they wouldn't be in existance as we would have all used them. lost the weight and been able to maintain that lose! so no more customers for them, the fact they are still in existance selling this miracle dieting method tells me they dont work!

 

[Sambucca]

Richard, I am nowhere near as knowledgeable as you when it comes to diets, nutrition etc... but I have to say that in my opinion all diets work if you can stick to them. But there is the problem, at least it is for me. My willpower is rubbish. The reason diets have failed for me before is because I have failed.

I lost 4 stones on a VLCD, but managed to eat my way back up to where I started, plus another couple of stones for good measure. It was me that couldnt stop putting the food in my mouth. There are some posters on Minimins that have lost weight successfully with CD or LL and have managed to maintain. The ones that spring to mind are Porgeous, KD, summerskye, Hopesprings... I'm sure there are others but I cant think of their names right now.

However you have illustrated your point brilliantly as usual. I agree, that significantly reducing calories does work to reduce body weight when you are obese, and that we eventually reach a plateau, and at that time it seems to be our body asking for more energy in to stop it holding on to the last fat reserves it has.

 

[Silversurfer]

Richard, I am nowhere near as knowledgeable as you when it comes to diets, nutrition etc... but I have to say that in my opinion all diets work if you can stick to them. But there is the problem, at least it is for me. My willpower is rubbish. The reason diets have failed for me before is because I have failed.

I lost 4 stones on a VLCD, but managed to eat my way back up to where I started, plus another couple of stones for good measure. It was me that couldnt stop putting the food in my mouth. There are some posters on Minimins that have lost weight successfully with CD or LL and have managed to maintain. The ones that spring to mind are Porgeous, KD, summerskye, Hopesprings... I'm sure there are others but I cant think of their names right now.

However you have illustrated your point brilliantly as usual. I agree, that significantly reducing calories does work to reduce body weight when you are obese, and that we eventually reach a plateau, and at that time it seems to be our body asking for more energy in to stop it holding on to the last fat reserves it has.

I did state that it is my own opinion that these liquid replacement diets dont work! but it depends what you refer to as work - if losing a significant amount of weight can be called successfull then they work, if losing that weight and maintaining that weight lose for life, then in my opinion they do not work, a successfull VLCD dieter will have to alway be dieting, remember an extra 200 calories above your recomended daily allowance post any diet ( the equivelent of a kit kat) per day will add 7 stone in ten years!

And please remember that the success of any diet must be measured across a statistical range of those untertaking that diet, i've read that with VLCD the long term success rate is around 5%, against that of the bypass at around 75% long term success rate, therfore its feasable that there will be people that undertake this form of diet and are successfull, and i do take my hat of to them, but remember for every 100 people that use this form of dieting 95 regain the weight.

Like yourself Sam i've tried every diet under the sun, signing up with hope to the next thing to come along, and they do have a measure of success (even did Atkins for 5 months at one point) but like yourself post the diet i always started to pile the lbs back on with avengence and more on top.

Again i stress that this is just my opinion based around the facts i've read, my own experiences and those of others i know following there own weight loss journey, i dont know any more than anyone else here about dieting or diets except what i've learn't since my bypass and i'm certainly no expert, and however an individual chooses to lose weight has to be a good thing as they are making a positive step towards a healthier life.

 

[Miss Tickle]

Well, thanks for the very interesting responses. I lost one lot of my 4 stones on Cambridge.( I'm always losing 4 stone, then test to see I'm not dying or something and put it back on plus another couple- hence the need for surgery). I felt fantastic on it, not hungry, full of energy and the weight fell off. The minute I ate solid food for a special occasion, I fell off that wagon and got dragged right under the wheels never to get back on again. I do know a couple of people who have lost 11 and 13 stone and kept it off but lots of people who have swelled themselves back up again. Cambridge claim your body doesn't go into starvation mode because the meal replacements give you everything you need which is why reading the Rosemary Conley 1500 cals guideline threw me. If I've ever calorie counted before ( which is since I was 10 years old and not even overweight) it was 1000. But what I've read here makes sense and really helps. Nobody wants to live on milkshakes forever but I hope the surgery will help me eat some 'normal' food and keep me on the straight and narrow forever. Obviously I know it's a hard path to follow and I'm going to have to harness some will power so I am very glad to have found this wonderfull supportive site.



And Twiggy this made me LOL!

To lose weight at the rate of 2lb a week (recommended) your daily requirement is 1700 calories, so you need to eat more! [/QUOTE]
Having to eat more is definately a first. But I have upped the calories today.
Thanks again
xx

 

[Silversurfer]

Sorry guys, i've digressed slightly of track and reading back through my posts makes me sounds like i'm on some one man 'put the dieting world to rights' campaign, which i'm not, each to there own, live and let live and all that stuff ;-)

For us bypassers i think the key is to re educate ourselves in the first year post op, believe me or not your pouch will stretch out and you will be able and have to consume more food each meal to satisfy yourself, when you can only eat 2oz of food its really not going to make a big difference what you eat as you simply cant consume enough to put weight on! but a year out your pouch will be about 6-8oz in size and you will need to fall back on the good practices and re education towards healthier foods that you have learnt to continue and maintain your weight lose, none of this is rocket science, just eat a bit healthier, keep to a balanced diet and do a bit of exercise !

 

[Twiggie]

And Twiggy this made me LOL!

To lose weight at the rate of 2lb a week (recommended) your daily requirement is 1700 calories, so you need to eat more!

Having to eat more is definately a first. But I have upped the calories today.
Thanks again
xx

I know, it's amazing isn't it!! Like you, and no doubt many others, I'd previously thought of diets as existing on nothing more than a ryvita and lettuce leaf and sticking to 1000 calories per day, then wondering why I barely lost any weight and constantly felt hungry!

It wasn't until I started doing Weight Watchers some years ago now that I found I was actually eating more than I usually did yet I was actually losing weight!!! It felt fantastic!!

So, you're probably wondering why I'm here today signed up for WLS then if it was so fantastic lol ....well, short story is I had an accident which left me immobilised for around 6mths and the weight just piled on again as I was comfort eating (feeling sorry for myself) and not able to exercise. For one reason or another I've never been able to get back on track since and have now reached a stage where I need a helping hand, hence the surgery.

I agree with SS in that I don't believe highly restrictive and food replacement diets work either. They're just a temporary solution and you can't stay on them forever. The problems arise when you go back to "normal eating" ... most people just eat the same as they did before, hence the weight piling back on, plus more!

The only way to lose weight and maintain weight loss is to eat a healthy balanced diet, combined with exercise, and not exceed what our bodies need to function. This has to be viewed as a permanent lifestyle change and not a "diet" though. The surgery helps us to do that by preventing us from over-eating but we also have a part to play in ensuring we eat the right food to ensure it works

Ok, lecture over! ...it's much easier to write about than it is to put into practice but I know I'm determined to try .... last chance saloon for me, and I'm sure for many of you too.... so we have to stand united and support each other and we will make it!

 

[Twiggie]

Sorry guys, i've digressed slightly of track and reading back through my posts makes me sounds like i'm on some one man 'put the dieting world to rights' campaign, which i'm not, each to there own, live and let live and all that stuff ;-)

For us bypassers i think the key is to re educate ourselves in the first year post op, believe me or not your pouch will stretch out and you will be able and have to consume more food each meal to satisfy yourself, when you can only eat 2oz of food its really not going to make a big difference what you eat as you simply cant consume enough to put weight on! but a year out your pouch will be about 6-8oz in size and you will need to fall back on the good practices and re education towards healthier foods that you have learnt to continue and maintain your weight lose, none of this is rocket science, just eat a bit healthier, keep to a balanced diet and do a bit of exercise !

LOL!!! Wish I'd read your post before writing mine as we're on the same wavelength but you're explanation is far more succinct than mine!

 

[Silversurfer]

LOL!!! Wish I'd read your post before writing mine as we're on the same wavelength but you're explanation is far more succinct than mine!

Lol - No you said it well too.

This thread has kind of gone off topic slightly, and its really not my intention to put the dieting world to rights either, i do take my hat of to those that lose through conventional methods like the liquid replacements or calorie controlled diets out there and manage to maintain it long term, shamefully i was never able to to do this and every diet i've ever done has failed for me, or maybe i failed it ? who knows, the result though was to conceed and undergo radical surgery, i'm not embarresed about what i've done but equally i'm not proud either, but rather a little disgisted that i allowed myself to get deep in that hole in the first place without having the strenght to do something about it myself, now i have to live the rest of my life mechanically altered to be of normal size.