I have been naughty and been trying alcohol

[Sambucca]

Well this thread has certainly highlighted the lack of consistency in advice amongst our surgical teams.

My opinion for what its worth, and its only my opinion, not gospel is that during this golden rapid weight loss stage we should do all that we can to maximise our weight loss potential. The weight will fall off during the first 6 months almost regardless of what you do - but if you make the most of this golden time you will do better than the next man who chooses to partake in alcohol (and cake!)

Now Im no saint, and at 20 months post op I do indulge in the occasional sweet treat or glass of wine, but I am successfully maintaining within a few lbs of a healthy weight and I can "afford" to consume these extra calories as I am no longer actively trying to lose weight. But from 6 months on I found it very hard to lose the weight as fast as I would like to and looking back in all honesty, Im sure that if Id followed the rules more closely Id have reached target weight much sooner.

Some people are not lucky enough to reach their goals at all. We all owe it to ourselves to give ourselves the best possible chance of getting to goal.

Normal people have the occasional wine or cake, but we aint normal. We are obese or morbidly obese trying to become normal. If you want to be normal you can go for a sprint or you can take the scenic route. Up to you.

 

[msunique]

Think a deep breath is needed and a line to be drawn under it all .... Only my opinion hope it doesn't upset or offend anyone xxxx

Nope you havent upset me at all, if we all thought the same it would be a boring world, and the whole idea of the forums is to share advice and experiences x


Tracy as you can see there are different rules depending on who your provider is, but trying alcohol whilst you are away and in the bar etc might not be a good idea if you have a bad reaction to it, I tried white wine mixed with water and was fine but others have tried it and it hasnt agreed with them, and you wouldnt want to spoil your holiday.

If you are staying in your room or try before bed if your provider has given you the ok then try it watered down first and see how you get on,

have a great holiday xx

 

[The Chopster]

Hi Tracy,

My surgeon Mr Sigurdsson told me to watch something on You Tube called 8 Golden Rules which Paul O'brien did who is an expert on banding. He said that the best thing to do is to follow his rules. One of the comments he makes is that it is ok for banders to have a glass of red wine and tests have shown that those who do have better results. Of course moderation is the key I would imagine. I wouldn't feel guilty about having one drink on holiday.

Sharon

 

[mandymoo]

Hi Tracy,

My surgeon Mr Sigurdsson told me to watch something on You Tube called 8 Golden Rules which Paul O'brien did who is an expert on banding. He said that the best thing to do is to follow his rules. One of the comments he makes is that it is ok for banders to have a glass of red wine and tests have shown that those who do have better results. Of course moderation is the key I would imagine. I wouldn't feel guilty about having one drink on holiday.

Sharon

Ummm hate red wine lol maybe in time I may try it again x

 

[Karlos]

Well this thread has certainly highlighted the lack of consistency in advice amongst our surgical teams.

My opinion for what its worth, and its only my opinion, not gospel is that during this golden rapid weight loss stage we should do all that we can to maximise our weight loss potential. The weight will fall off during the first 6 months almost regardless of what you do - but if you make the most of this golden time you will do better than the next man who chooses to partake in alcohol (and cake!)

Now Im no saint, and at 20 months post op I do indulge in the occasional sweet treat or glass of wine, but I am successfully maintaining within a few lbs of a healthy weight and I can "afford" to consume these extra calories as I am no longer actively trying to lose weight. But from 6 months on I found it very hard to lose the weight as fast as I would like to and looking back in all honesty, Im sure that if Id followed the rules more closely Id have reached target weight much sooner.

Some people are not lucky enough to reach their goals at all. We all owe it to ourselves to give ourselves the best possible chance of getting to goal.

Normal people have the occasional wine or cake, but we aint normal. We are obese or morbidly obese trying to become normal. If you want to be normal you can go for a sprint or you can take the scenic route. Up to you.

You’re absolutely right Sam. Post op we have six to twelve months to maximise our weight loss. Not only that but we have that period when we are less under the control of food and our appetites are reduced anyway to break away from the bad food and drink choices we made pre op. I’ve been around WLS support groups and forums for three years and have lost count of the number of times that I’ve heard people babbling on about moderation thinking that they are in control, only to find them stalling early out and then regaining weight in less than a year. Wait until you’re a year out and your appetite returns and you start feeling real hunger again, if you haven’t made significant lifestyle changes by then you are in real danger of weight regain.

If at two months or less out you cannot stay away from these bad food choices (bread, pasta alcohol and cake etc) and think because you can only eat small amounts then you’re doing nothing wrong then that’s your choice. It really isn’t about what you can tolerate; it’s about the choices you make now that will map out your future relationship with food and drink that will determine your ultimate success. Volume isn’t the only danger there are lots of post op bypass patients who have regained all their weight even with a reduced capacity.

The best piece of advice I was ever given from someone three years out that was told to her by one of the most successful WLS surgeons in the USA. This guy has a 95% success rate in terms of his patients maintaining a healthy weight post op for two years or more. He told her that thinking you never need to diet again once you’re post op is a mistake. We are forever on a diet the bypass just takes the grind out of it.

Anyway that’s it for me on this thread. Each to their own, in the end we all follow the path that we think is right for us. I’ll just sit back and watch the progress with interest and wish everyone good luck with it

 

[cah-ching]

You’re absolutely right Sam. Post op we have six to twelve months to maximise our weight loss. Not only that but we have that period when we are less under the control of food and our appetites are reduced anyway to break away from the bad food and drink choices we made pre op. I’ve been around WLS support groups and forums for three years and have lost count of the number of times that I’ve heard people babbling on about moderation thinking that they are in control, only to find them stalling early out and then regaining weight in less than a year. Wait until you’re a year out and your appetite returns and you start feeling real hunger again, if you haven’t made significant lifestyle changes by then you are in real danger of weight regain.

If at two months or less out you cannot stay away from these bad food choices (bread, pasta alcohol and cake etc) and think because you can only eat small amounts then you’re doing nothing wrong then that’s your choice. It really isn’t about what you can tolerate; it’s about the choices you make now that will map out your future relationship with food and drink that will determine your ultimate success. Volume isn’t the only danger there are lots of post op bypass patients who have regained all their weight even with a reduced capacity.

The best piece of advice I was ever given from someone three years out that was told to her by one of the most successful WLS surgeons in the USA. This guy has a 95% success rate in terms of his patients maintaining a healthy weight post op for two years or more. He told her that thinking you never need to diet again once you’re post op is a mistake. We are forever on a diet the bypass just takes the grind out of it.

Anyway that’s it for me on this thread. Each to their own, in the end we all follow the path that we think is right for us. I’ll just sit back and watch the progress with interest and wish everyone good luck with it

Great post. I can't rep you though

 

[brad scott]

i can see how u all feel on this subject and noone is wrong everyone has the right to their opinion its healthy to argue ur point over someone elses BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i think what has riled me is kevins reply to all of this he started of with xxx he was quick enough to boast how he had drank a bottle of wine but when it all kicked off on here he didnt have the nerve to defend him self well im sorry kevin i dont know how u live your life but i dont live mine like that if i have said anything that people dont agree with i dont hide away and wish i hadnt said them or not able to defend the words that ive said its not the fact u drank a bottle of wine that has bothered me its the fact u ran away from it everyone will have bad days and eat cake or drink booze and the day i do i will post it on here and there maybe people like karlos that dont agree with me which will be fine but id like u to watch my replys and hopefully u can learn how to deal with a arguement in a grown up adult way

 

[IRJ]

Karlos you are Spot on mate

 

[Kevin1708]

Brad

I have read many of the posts on here and penned many a response but chose not to post them - however this is nothing to do with running away and hiding but to do with how disappointed I felt at some of the responses on this thread. The reason for the xxx is simple; I prepared a detailed response and posted it but then had a change of heart and edited it but for whatever reason you cannot leave a blank post and the minimum characters required to exit is 3. For the sake of clarity, the one and only object of my posting the original thread was simply to ask advice . . .

It is a difficult concept for me to grasp – I understand that as I reduce in size my alcohol tolerance will also reduce – I also understand that with the bypass much of the product you eat or drink passes from the stomach directly into the jejunum (the part of the small intestine where most absorption takes place) so one should feel the effects much quicker . . .

Yes I drank wine 4 weeks + post op but with the blessing of my surgeon – I think most of the sage advice is to “try things and if you can tolerate them that’s fine”. I did not go out and drink battery acid or 10 pints of Stella. There are postings on here with supporting video from some of the most well respected bariatric surgeons in the country stating a simple 6 week abstention from alcohol ~ in fact if I recall you yourself posted a thread asking for advice on drinking 5 weeks post op! There is clearly a wide range of views and advices but I see no reason why this should descend in to a melee with borderline bullying.

Don’t get me wrong, there have been some wonderfully constructive, valid and well made points which I have taken on board. Similarly, I take my hat off to those who have lost and maintained (I really do) but that does not give them a right to be self righteous and condemn my actions (and others actions) unless of course I have missed and earlier posting and they are in fact medically qualified and specialize in WLS.

If there are 1000 members on here there will be 10 thousand reasons for wanting / needing to lose weight, another 100 thousand stories of past failings and a countless myriad of journey either undertaken or before us – one thing is certain ~ all will be different. What keeps one on the straight and narrow may well cause another one to fail.

For the sake of clarity, I have checked again with my team and red wine in moderation if fine (with certain caveats about ones liver) ~ if I was drinking Louis XIII de Remy Martin then my surgeon (and my bank manager) may well be concerned.

When I first enquired about undergoing surgery, I reviewed all the pros and cons and drew up a detailed balance sheet. One of my major concerns (as I have said before) was how WLS would impinge upon my social life (and that of my family) . . . at 325lb I needed to lose weight but had no co-morbidities and was actually in good health (having just passed a very stringent CAA medical with flying colours) but there was just too much of me and it would have been naive to ignore the possible problems that laid in wait (or weight ~ some humour for you). Being a tad over 6’ and having played a lot of rugby in my younger days I have the build which will carry some weight . . . to be frank it was a very difficult decision ~ major surgery, a life change and £11,297.00 of my children’s inheritance or go on diet and dig my bike out from the back of the garage ! I consider myself to be a reasonable person and able to work things through – when I met with my nominated surgeon it was recommended that I undergo open bypass (reasons left for a different post) – I had gone in with a band in mind. Part of our discussion was around the journey post op and inevitably we discussed ‘fail rates’ – I know that I would not have gone ahead with the surgery if I could not have enjoyed a glass of wine and maybe (in time) the odd pint of real ale with family and friends. But it is not all about drink - I was assured that no foods were truly out of bounds (though fizzy drinks might be an issue) . . . the real message being ‘everything in moderation’ (proteins first and so on).

In my opinion, it is not about one having and enjoying empty calories or having the odd treat (this certainly does not mean you have failed) it is about the journey as a whole and while I accept that it may well take me a few weeks longer to get there I will get there. The journey I have decided to take involves drinking the odd glass of wine, eating good quality food and enjoying my life, my family and my friends – which coincidently is exactly the journey advocated by my surgeon.

I am sorry that this posting has cause such ructions – I am however frustrated that certain members have openly quested if I have even had WLS (!) and second guessed my reason for posting my original thread – they have no right to do this (and have done so without any evidence or even a rational supporting statement), it is defamatory and shows a certain insensitivity on their part.

I hope now everyone can part friends and move on.

 

[brad scott]

about time kevin at least everyone knows how u feel and for the record i didnt slate you for drinking i said i thought it may be 2 early i just didnt respect the fact u didnt reply and as for asking about drinking 5 weeks out yes i did but i didnt drink any as i respect the chance i have been given and nothing and i mean nothing will put that at risk i understand we are all different so keep drinking im glad it doesnt affect you in any way

 

[Stellap]

I was in two minds whether to comment on this but what I will say is when you said " Yes I drank wine 4 weeks + post op but with the blessing of my surgeon " I don't think he knew he was giving blessing for downing a bottle of wine in 2 hours within such a short time out of major surgery and if he did then I really wouldn't trust his judgement, also remember he is a surgeon whose specialism is to operate - that is why you have to see a nutritionist/dietician in conjunction as he is not trained to give advice on what you eat/drink. Having said that I think maybe his idea of moderation and yours are at odds. I like the odd glass of wine at 17 months out but don't underestimate that it can become addictive (my brother died at 42 through alcoholism so I have a very healthy respect for alcohol and its dangers), especially given the statistics of cross transference of addiction. I'm sure its fine to have the odd glass or treat when you are a long way out and in maintenance - why risk sabotaging yourself so early in the game? I'm sure this is just a blip and you will go on to become successful but we are all here because we have self control issues which we have to learn to overcome if we don't want to end up back to square one. Good luck in your journey.

 

[Undecided]

I've just found this thread. My opinion is that people have no right to judge what someone else does or doesn't do. There are some very self righteous comments on here, and quite frankly I think it's no ones business to comment on a decision (unless it's asked for).

It was in the chat section. Kevin didn't ask for everyone's opinion on what he drank and how much, so people shouldnt have provided one.

A carefully worded "be careful, are you aware ..?" advisory post might have been ok (more for information purposes), but I don't believe it was right for people to take it upon themselves to give him a full blown lecture (and worse). Plus, as has been discovered, advice from medical teams in different hospitals seems to vary.

I want mainly to remind people that not everyone on here is perfect. Sometimes people seem to forget that. And if Kevin CHOOSES to drink, then it's up to him.

My only comments would be just to bear in mind the possibility of addiction transfer.

The surgery deals with the physical side of eating problems, the mental ones can still remain. Quite frankly I would ask the question, if anyone DIDN'T have issues with food and found the whole thing a breeze, why did you have the surgery in the first place ? If making the right food choices was sooo easy, why didn't you just do that to start with ? Why not lose the weight yourself ?

I have seen a lot of judgemental comments lately. This forum as far as I know is supposed to be a support group. If anyone feels the need to lecture people, they should probably ask first if they WISH to be lectured at.

 

[Undecided]

Can I also say that for many people this forum provides a great deal of support. People feel able to be completely honest about things they do / mistakes they might make.

Jumping on people in such away will take away the ability people have to be honest, and get the support they may genuinely need.

I don't agree on the amount of wine he consumed, however I dont believe anyone here has the right to judge him. I especially think that sarcastic replies are completely unnacceptable.

 

[Undecided]

For Kevin ..

Hi Kevin

I'm not entirely sure why it didnt effect you as expected. Could be worth seeing if there are any new articles on the subject ?

I still half believe that the reason they tell you to avoid drink is because of the risk of addiction transfer. I did raise this subject on a thread a while back.

My only advice would be just to be careful. I dont know what your drinking was like before, but my sister is a fully fledged alcoholic. This was one of the main reasons I decided to put my surgery on hold. No matter how big I got or could get, I would rather be big than risk being an alcholic. I don't drink at all now, but I've heard of people who were also t-total, who became alcoholics after surgery, and I just couldnt take the risk.

Until I saw it in my own family, I had no idea how badly it could affect people's lives. My sister has no friends (not one). She has no job (and can't get one). Only myself and my mother will go anywhere with her, because it's like babysitting a child. She will do anything for drink. And she lies. A LOT.

She has attempted suicide many times (but always been caught), because she knows she has no life at all.

She gets laughed at and bullied by people in the street. Kids follow her home calling her names. Men take advantage of her.

There are many other effects, but too many to even go into. Being an alcoholic changes your life forever. It also changes the lives of your family and friends (who would eventually get sick of you and stop calling / coming round).

I can tell you that being big is NOTHING compared to being an alcoholic. People may get laughed at when big. They may even get bullied, however when under the influence of alcohol it's ten times worse. If you eat your bodyweight in food, for the most part it's only you that suffers. You still retain your mental capacity. You don't do anything to embarrass yourself.

This would be my only concern. I genuinely wouldnt wish this life on anyone else. My parents no longer have holidays. Each time they have tried to go away something happens to their daughter. When I was working I had to take time off to "babysit", so that they could have a break.

If you like to drink, just try to be aware of how much is going down, and how easily.

I can only stronly advise any post oppers not to touch the stuff. I don't think a glass of wine is worth the risk of developping into something that destroys your life, and the life of everyone around you. It is a REAL risk with this surgery.

 

[Undecided]

For everyone else - once again, people might make bad choices. People also make mistakes. If you have found the surgery and mental changes relating to food (and drink) easy, then maybe you could have lost the weight without the surgery. In which case, why didnt you ?

The surgery is a last resort. Not everyone is perfect. Not everyone makes perfect choices. That is why they ended up going under the knife.
If you have had it, and stuck perfectly to eating the correct amount of protein etc. If you've not had any cravings for anything "naughty", or have (but managed to ignore them). Then well done. You should be proud (or lucky if the cravings just werent there). However please don't think for one minute that you have the right to criticise those who struggle / are misinformed / make mistakes.

 

[Sambucca]

Undecided, I am sorry to hear of all you have been through with your sister. It sounds awful and I can understand why you feel strongly about addiction transfer - particulary to alcohol and hence why you have decided not to go ahead with your surgery.

However, I feel your 4 consecutive posts will provoke yet another backlash from people who have only tried to point out the same as you - that there is a risk of addiction transfer, hence the reason not to consume alcohol in great quantity so soon after surgery.

Im assuming your comments regarding being perfect at following the rules are aimed at Karlos, and as he is critically ill in hospital at the moment, potentially fighting for his life, I feel its best that this thread is brought to a close before members naturally jump to Karlos' defence and potentially turn this into another slanging match.