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Tough Love

S

Sambucca

New Member
OK, I have thought long and hard about whether to post this or not. Before I start - a disclaimer.

* This is MY opinion only, I am not an expert. This is just my observation and as a pre opper I may be out of order for saying what I am about to say. Please know that I say this as I care about each and every one of you and want you all to do well on your journeys. *

So here goes.

I am really struggling to sit on my hands every time I see a thread saying someone has eaten something they shouldn't.

As WLS patients, this is the last chance saloon for us. Most of us have tried everything else and failed - me included. I'm no saint. If this (wls) doesn't work for us then we are destined to remain obese forever.

I cannot understand why some people choose to abuse the tools they have been given and eat things they shouldn't. Not only eat things they shouldn't but in large quantities.

I will not tell people its OK to have eaten KFC, McD's, Cheesecake, Chocolates, CHips, Curry Sauce amongst other things. This is not a dig personally at the people to have confessed to these this week. Just that these are the ones I can remember. Telling someone to put it behind them, or tomorrow is another day is not supportive in my opinion. It is almost condoning what they have done.

Now I know that this is all easy for me to say as a pre opper. I am not the one having to forego all these foods at the minute. I am still enjoying my food and that probably makes me a hypocrite. But I know that once I have had my operation, I am so determined to get this weight off and keep it off that nothing is going to tempt me to put the junk in my mouth that has made me obese in the first place. It is the main reason I chose a bypass over band as I know that for me personally, just the fear of dumping is going to be enough to stop me eating these foods.

Brunetteandred had an "epiphany" I think she called it when she saw the Psyche prior to her recent surgery. He made her realise that this was her responsibility and that the operation was just a tool. I havent had to see the psyche myself, but it has made me realise what she realised. THe hard work is still down to the individual. Read her blog as she explains it far more articulately than I can.

So what I'm trying to say (badly lol) is that WLS is to help us to lose weight and then get back to a "normal" way of eating. Eating a whole cake, or whatever it may be, isnt eating normally.

I'm so frightened of having this operation and then returning to my starting weight if I dont change my habits and I just want all of us to be successful. To lose as much as possible, and then maintain our losses with healthy eating with the occasional small treat. A whole cake is not a small treat.

I havent started this thread to cause an argument. I dont want another debate over band v bypass, or to see a psyche or not to see a psyche.... I just wanted peeps to understand why I perhaps haven't shown my "support" on the threads which talk about eating the wrong foods.

Perhaps, if people agree with me, we could use this thread to show tough love to people who have fallen off the wagon, rather than a pat on the back.

I hope I've made myself clear and not upset anyone personally.

And there endeth todays sermon!
 
hi sam this is a very very good thread and i understand exactly where your coming from with your thoughts, what ever op is chosen by each individual patient is basically "the last chance" to conquer being obese, i hold my hand up and admit i over my 4 years i have eaten things i shouldnt.
its taken along time for me to take full control of my eating habbits, but i now have that control. you are exactly right about not praising people for eating something they shouldnt as it can be taken in the context of its ok to do it more often.
i can not answer for the reasons other people sabotage there wls but i can speak for my reasoning when its happened to me in the past, the times i have eaten some thing i shouldnt is because basicaly "im a food addict" its like a craving, you go to the shop buy the bad food item, knowing at this point its wrong but still continue to the check out to pay for the item, you sit and eat that item still knowing its wrong while consuming it, knowing the guilt your going to feel immeadiatly after you have finished. but people do this from time to time from my point of view because they are still trying to crack there food addiction, learning to take full control for your own responsabilities is very very hard, but it is possible.
i still get tempted by alot of bad things but whats different now is at the point of going to buy the item just step back a little and think about this wonderfull chance we have been given to turn our lives around as not everyone has the privalidge of having weight loss surgery. the chocolate bar, the cake, the fried foods is so not worth it any more, put them back on the shelf for someone else to buy, doing this is a strong positive step forward for any wls patient, once you have done it once, it becomes so much easier to do and thats where learning the self control came into play for me.

ive tryed to rep you sam for this very important thread but it wont let me, when im allowed to i shall return and rep ya.

also my comments is also of my own opinion an from personal experiences in my weight loss journey so far.


liz x
 
Sam, I have to commend you on your bravery to say what you said. I have had similar thoughts over my time on this forum. I have been torn as to if I should say anything negative about other people's food confessions. On one hand, having a place to admit your mistakes and share your guilt for going off the path is a wonderful, special thing. Having other people remind you far you have come & put your detour in perspective can be very good. On the other hand, some threads have felt like people want to be validated in their bad food choices and addictive behaviours by saying 'oh, well others do it so it must be okay for me to continue'.

So what to do? As this is a SUPPORT forum, I have chosen to either not comment or give reassurance that detours are not reflective of failure and that in the end the small blips are what make us human. Is that the right way to support people? Not sure really but it is the choice I have made. I do however personally and in real life relationships believe in tough love. I think in my own friendships that your friends look to you sometimes to be that voice that says what the heck were you thinking? But on here, I feel like it might come off as too harsh and bossy to tell people how to run their own bodies & wls journey when we really don't know each other. I have told myself that the people who want to really hear how it is and know that the window of opportunity to make use of a wls tool is ever so small will take for this group what they can. Others who are not ready yet or unwilling to follow the rules/guidlines/path will find the validation that they seek here as well. We all hear what we want to hear anyway, right?

So, I offer this, if anyone wants to have the tough love approach when talking about struggles you face, please say so because I think you might be surprised how many of us would be there for you and tell it like it is (in our own individual point of view).

Please don't anyone think I am starting a fight or picking on anyone specific, I really am not. I also want everyone to know that I truly believe in positive affirmation so when I give it, I am very, very sincere. Please take this post as it was meant, a true discussion of my beliefs and not meant to make anyone feel bad! This is just how I feel and wanted to comment my own point of view.

Nic
 
Am with you on this one Sam. It's something I've talked about with Nic before now, as both of us have similar philosophies when it comes to food. OK so I'm eating a bit of cr@p at the moment, but thats circumstances lol.

The way I see my eating after surgery, is if I want something 'bad', then I'll have a little bit of it. But that's all it is, a little bit. It's not as if I do that every day either! Moderation lol, 99% of my food intake is thought through, planned, and nutritionally purposeful.

The problems come when people see that in the early days they can get away with eating cr@p and still lose weight, so they get in to the bad habits that you can get away with at first. However, once you get past the 6 months stage, it doesn't work the same way! If you carry on with the habits you've gained then your weight loss slows and stops.

I'm 9 months out, and still losing weight. So from my perspective, if you want to eat cr@p and ignore the rules, go for it, it's your life and it doesn't affect me. But like Sam, I won't be saying there there it's all ok, cos in all honesty, it's not, it's just a wasted opportunity.
 
I have no experience of having WLS but I do have experience of food addiction. At the end of the day everyone here has a form of food addiction, if they didn't they would be in control and wouldn't need to be here.

From what I can see those addictions do not disappear just because you have had an operation. It takes time and a lot of effort to work with the 'tool'. Whilst I can understand your feelings I think it would be wrong of us not to support people who do succumb to those overwhelming feelings. We all know what that feels like whether we have had WLS or not.

We are all human and none of us are perfect. Sometimes we have bad days and slip off the wagon. It's not right but it happens and we have to accept that failure and move on.

Tomorrow is another day and if we can move on and put our failure behind us we are all sure to succeed.

Of course if one bad day falls into another bad day then we have a problem and it is obvious that the commitment is not there.

This forum is invaluable for people who wish to express their true feelings knowing that someone somewhere will be feeling the same way or has felt the same way in the past. I for one would not wish to put people off posting if they feel they will not get the support they desperately need at a very difficult time. When people make mistakes you can almost guarantee they will be feeling enough guilt and upset without any of us adding to it.

Sam I commend you for starting such an interesting topic and please don't feel that I am in any way being personal to you. We all have our own opinions which is what makes this place such a great place to be.

Lisa x
 
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im so torn on this and if im honest would love to discuss it again when you are post op, im very guilty of posting about my slip ups mainly because when you see in black and white what you have done reality hits , if someone then were to say to me what the hell are you doing sabataging yourself id probably tell them to get f**k'd if im honest ,lol im trying to beat an addiction and cylcles of guilt can perpetuate it so having some suport and being told its ok your not a bad person really helps. nobody is perfect we all make mistakes but i think the support thru those mistakes is priceless and stops making me feel worthless for failing. im 99% of time determined not to fail but life doesnt always make that easy breaking a lifetime of habbits just doesnt as much as we want it to happen overnight. but i can understand where your coming from as i have known a few people who have totally given up on band after loosing only a few stone and felt what a waste why do it if your not going to follow it thru . good for you for expressing how you feel about it tho
 
It's all so difficult. No one bats an eyelid if a 'thin' person walks down the street with a gi-normous packet of crisps, but if I did it, I would feel guilty and I know I'd be judged by anyone passing. We all have our own opinions and that's what makes us special and individual. Above all, we understand one another.
 
Two years ago I attend weight management sessions and we were taught no food is bad there are just good choices and not so good choices...they advised us that if we wanted something that we deemed bad the idea was to have a little of it. They did not advocate sticking to low fat everything as when fat is taken out they put in more sugar etc. It is the old adage that a "little" of what you fancy does you good. I have had bits of things that are not healthy but I have felt no guilt whatsoever....I have lost four stone and have two to go and I have banished the cycle of eating and feeling guilty that I suffered with for a long time...I also find that if you crave something and cant have it the craving gets worse....I can now have a tiny portion of what I crave and I find I either have satisfaction or no longer like that food.....we are all so very different and its a massive learning curve of undoing habits that we formed over many many years....the bypass/band is def not an easy option, you dont get it and forget about it you work with it but I would never condem someone for eating something deemed bad...we need to support people in different ways because we are all different and what works for one wont work for another....

As said before in other posts this is my opinion.....xx
 
I allow myself "bad" foods but in moderation, yes sometimes I have a milky way and yes sometimes I might have a slice of pizza, but where as before the operation I would have taken no pleasure in these foods and mindlessly crammed them into my mouth, I now sit down and enjoy them as the once in a while treats that they should be.

I have to put my hands up though and admit that I have had a terrible fortnight with my diet, I have given up smoking and all I seem to want to do is snack I feel I have sucked my weight in sugar free mints. Sometimes there are times in our lives that food still becomes that comfort blanket but its a learning curve to recognise the signs and say enoughs enough, It dont come over night!
 
Great thread, Sam and I am with you 100%. I am now post-op, albeit very early days. I have had CBT with regard to my eating habits, I know about 'mouth' and 'head' hunger, I know what I should be doing and what I shouldn't be doing.

But pre-op, even though I knew all that, I was still eating cr*p and kidding myself i wasn't. The bariatric psyche said it was simple physics and maths; it's 30cals to a kilo to sustain that kilo. I was eating roughly 3,500cals a day to maintain the weight I was.

No one else was doing that for me or to me. I was. No one force fed me those excess calories. I fed them to me.

So, what was the point of me having my stomach sutured smaller and my bowel replumbed?

Yep, it's a physical tool, but I am damned if I have been through the emotional roller coaster of application, waiting for funding, trying to get appointments and theatre time asap to go back to chucking cr*p down my throat.

Yes, I will have a wobbly day. But when and not if I do, I will ask myself the 'BIG QUESTION':

'What gives you permission to eat what you don't need?'

And, if, after reflecting on the emotional and physical pain I have endured to that point thus far, I feel I do have permission, then I know I will be on a rocky road to stretched pouch, obesity ruin.

None of us are perfect, but we all have the power of reason and choice and I do feel that unless we remain careful & moreover disciplined, we have the capacity to abuse those powers and use them as an excuse to go back into the 'comfy slippers' of old habits.

I want those slippers burnt. They gave me no comfort at all. In fact, they were on the way to walking me into the eternal sleep. In my coffin.
 
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I am loving the responses so far. From both sides of the argument.

As I said, Im not a saint. I know that I made myself obese by doing the exact same thing as I am now criticizing others for. Im not saying no one can ever have a biscuit again, or a slice of pizza. Its about recognising the nutritional quality of foods and taking enjoyment from them rather than cramming them in without tasting them and then feeling remorse.

Keep your replies coming girls. You are all articulating this far better than I can.

Have run out of rep (again LOL) but will get round to all of you eventually xx
 
"I can resist anything but temptation" A favourite quote of mine!

Im not offended, but not quite sure i agree with you. (But wouldnt like to fall out with you over it. x)
I just think that if people had to the motivation to resist these foods 100% anyway, they wouldnt have needed WLS in the first place.


And thats all i have to say!! lol I could go on forever, but you get the gist!
 
As Shel (and my bariatric nurse and psyche said too) the first 6 months are the best window of opportunity to masximise on the weight loss. That is the most crucial time to make the lifestyle changes that will literally shape the future.

I do get a sense of sadness when I see some of my fellow Minis early post-op shaving away at the opportunity.
 
very powerful and honest post red, it wont let me rep ya yet but i will do when it allows me to.

liz x
 
Liz, I think its fair to say that many of us here have food addiction. Its very helpful to hear the steps you have taken to over come yours and to hear that even you as a successful WLSer has had to fight your own urges. THank you.

Nic, You are right that people come here for support, and I am happy to give that support were appropriate. You are also correct in that we all hear what we want to hear. Thanks for giving your opinion hun.

Shel. My Inspiration. You are so right when you say that people see that they can get away with the odd blip in the early days and still lose weight. THats the point I am trying to make. People think that as long as the weight is coming off they are doing OK. Its so important for us to try and re-educate ourselves. Yes we can have treats in moderation. THat word escaped me in my OP. Moderation is definitely the key.

LBD, I havent taken your comments personally hun, and in fact I agree with everything you have said. We ARE all human, and we will make mistakes. I'm damn sure I will still crave food after my op. As I said, food addiction is one of the reasons I have chosen bypass over band, as for me, the fear of dumping alone I am hoping will keep me on the straight and narrow.

Thanks Gaynor.

Serenity, I am sure you are right. My perspective on this may well change and I would love to discuss it with you again when I am healed from my op and onto solid foods. I would also probably say get F***ed if someone tried to give me a kick up the bum when I had slipped from my diet. THank you for saying that you need the support. I will try my best to give it to you next time I see a thread from you asking for support.

Ladybird Gal... Spot on. We wouldnt be here at all discussing this if we were thin. We would be allowed to eat to our hearts content without feeling bad.

Gonna post this now before I lose it. I will continue my replies to everyone else in the next post.
 
Linda, I agree with you also. I think perhaps the weight management course should be something we all have to go through to secure our funding for WLS. Was the course you took directed at WLS patients, or just a general weight management course for anyone struggling with their weight?

A little of what you fancy can help to keep you on the straight and narrow. I am not however referring to the posts where someone has had a little... but those where people have posted because they feel guilty that they have overindulged. I hope you dont think I am condemning people. Im not. I did say myself that I am no saint.

Hi Cally, good to see you! As someone who is now almost a year post op I value your opinion hun so thanks for posting. Again you have used that word moderation. That is so important.

Red, as usual you have said what I wanted to say but far better than I have. I am glad to be walking in your footsteps on my WLS journey.

Fedup. LOL. Thats a favourite saying of mine too. Glad we are not going to fall out over our differing opinions hun. Thats what makes Minis such a wonderful place to be.
 
Sam it was run through a clinic near me. When I was struggling to lose weight and the tablets were not working my GP sent me there. It was great to get a better understanding of food and whilst I did not lose weight attending or after it it did open my eyes to guilt eating...I would eat something feel extremely guilty then eat some more for comfort and so on and so forth. I have the odd slice of pizza and when you chew it to death you get enough of the taste to not require any more. I also have a chinese once a month but it lasts me four meals and again I enjoy each mouthful...whereas before I would eat the whole chow mein AND a portion of ribs...when I open the tub now I think "yikes how the hell did I manage it"....lol....in work recently our new inspector bought cream cakes for his team...I accepted a vanilla slice, ate it without dumping and then realised I had not enjoyed it and wont be having another....in can be a lesson learnt sometimes....in fact I very rarely touch sweet stuff now preferring my savoury by a long shot...hope I have explained this correct xx
 
That sounds good Linda. I can definitely associate with guilt eating. I guess a lot of us can. Its great that it has helped you to understand some of your eating patterns and habits.

Youve explained it very well hun. Thanks xx
 
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