Obese Man Loses Court Battle

[Kevin1708]

Obese Man Loses Court Battle

Following the Court of Appeal upholding a decision that the funding policy of the primary care trust did not breach human rights laws, Tom Condliff, 62, who is 1.88m (6 feet and 2.02) tall and weighs 140kg (just over 308lb of 22st.) or will not have the NHS ordered to carry out a gastric bypass operation.

The morbidly obese former policeman will continue to try to force the NHS to pay for stomach surgery, saying he may have less than a year to live because his local primary care trust will not pay for the operation. The Court of Appeal refused leave to appeal to the Supreme Court, but this will likely be challenged.

See : Guardian Newspaper (28 July 2011), pg 6 ~ James Meikle.

 

[Karlos]

If this guy is getting legal aid I reckon they could have paid for his op twice over instead of paying lawyers

His BMI is less than 40 so there is no way he will get WLS unless he has a shed load of comorbidities, and if he did have surely they would have done the surgery by now.

I feel for anyone who is waiting for a date or who has been refused and I consider myself very very lucky to have got in at the right time, but there will be many more who are closer to the set limits who are also disappointed not to be granted funding.

However to suggest that he has a human right to surgery is bollox. We exercised (No pun intended) our human rights in allowing ourselves to get huge, and though it might seem churlish for a former fattie to say it, no one held him down and force fed him or me. This kind of publicity harms us all

 

[Miss Tickle]

I feel sorry for him, and am so grateful for the precious gift I have been given, but agree with you Karl

 

[Mazza]

I agree Karl! The way the NHS varies its criteria by PCT means that people are going to miss out on NHS funding and whilst thats not fair - thats the way it is.

 

[Sambucca]

absolutely agree with you Karl

Ive not calculated this chaps BMI, but if it is under 40 as you say then he hasnt got a cat in hells chance, and if he is claiming legal aid it just shows how bloody stupid the system is!

I feel for anyone who is suffering the effects of morbid obesity, but as you said Karl... most of us are (not all, I know) for our own weight problems.

 

[mandym1]

I absolutely agree Karl I feel so sorry for this guy and wish they would help him but its not his human right!! It really does give a bad impression of us "fattys" makes us sound like propper whingers! We get enough bad press without this. x

 

[lamornamiss]

If this guy is getting legal aid I reckon they could have paid for his op twice over instead of paying lawyers

His BMI is less than 40 so there is no way he will get WLS unless he has a shed load of comorbidities, and if he did have surely they would have done the surgery by now.

This is a quote from the report

"Mr Condliff, a 62 year-old grandfather from Staffordshire, is said to have become obese because of the diabetes drugs he takes. He now suffers from 13 illnesses, takes 28 different drugs and has to wear breathing masks and inhalers."

His BMI is 43

If I remember rightly he has been told without the op he has only got about 18 months to live due to his health problems

 

[tranquil_butterfly]

Shoot me if I am wrong but I think this gentleman's weight problems have developed as a result of his medical problems rather than being totally self inflicted.

I hear what you are all saying with regard to the bad press - but I feel for him. He really is at last chance saloon. I doubt the Supreme Court will overturn the Court of Appeal decision but you never know - they are a quirky bunch of Judges and can come up with decisions sometimes which go against the flow. I do not however think in the current climate and being aware of some of their recent decisions in similar areas, he has much of a chance.

tranquil x

 

[Karlos]

This is a quote from the report

"Mr Condliff, a 62 year-old grandfather from Staffordshire, is said to have become obese because of the diabetes drugs he takes. He now suffers from 13 illnesses, takes 28 different drugs and has to wear breathing masks and inhalers."

His BMI is 43

If I remember rightly he has been told without the op he has only got about 18 months to live due to his health problems

So are you saying he has the human right to WLS hun? He either meets the criteria or he doesn't. If he does and if the illnesses he has are a contributing factor I can see no reason why his PCT would have denied either his initial application and subsequent appeals. It is nuts that they will spend more money fighting this case in the courts than they would chopping his guts up, but they have to draw the line somewhere I guess. I've read a number of reports and some say he has 3 years, others less than a year, You would think that if he was that ill then surgery might be too great a risk anyway?

I used three BMI calculators and they calculated it at his height and weight at 39. Go figure. I really do feel for the old guy, but his lawyers who I guess are being paid for by taxpayers are only in it for the money and paying their bill will take even more resources from the public purse

The claim that his human rights are being denied because he doesn't meet the set criteria is just crap. There is a finite amount of money available and unless we are all prepared to pay more in tax and NI to give them more money to spend then situations like this will tragically happen.

 

[SARAH S]

I think half the problem is that each PCT seems to have its own criteria..often with no comparisons.

If there was a set of requirements that was standard perhaps it would be easier to understand.

That said I suppose every case is different and equally as important to each patient... Oh dear, I'd be hopeless at making the decisions wouldn't I

 

[Karlos]

Shoot me if I am wrong but I think this gentleman's weight problems have developed as a result of his medical problems rather than being totally self inflicted.


tranquil x

That is his claim yes. Maybe the drugs have indeed contributed to his weight problems, though there are millions of diabetics who take the same drugs everyday who maintain a normal weight so I don't know

 

[joffy01582]

it all depends where you live .............some pcts say that you need to have a bmi of over 50 with comorbidities ................. my bmi is 40 and i'm having mine done end of august

 

[SARAH S]

Thats what I mean, I'm 43+ but I don't stand a snowballs because my PCT has to lose £400m this year.

My GP said he'd refer but we'd probably take 18 months with appeals just to be told no!!

People who have other, perhaps more urgent needs will be placed over the likes of me..

In fact there was a study discussed on BBC news this morning stating that most PCT's postpone decisions in the hope that patients will either go private or will die before they make a decision...that just can't be right

 

[Awenlock]

I too live in Staffordshire and have spent 3 years jumping thru PCT hoops to finally get my date on November 1st, I had a BMI of 46 when I got accepted for funding and was told that I only just scraped through because of my weight related issues, I believe that they are even more stern in their criteria now. I feel sorry for him that he has been refused but if it is the same surgeon as myself he is very sympathetic to health issues and I believe that it all would have been taken into consideration before a decision was made.

 

[Miss Tickle]

It is a shame that it's all cash driven and that the criteria varies so much, but that's the way it is . When I was referred my PCT would fund BMI 36 with co-morbidities but they have changed it now and I don't think I'd have got surgery if they hadn't agreed to honour those on the waiting list.
i'm unsure if wls would really assist this poor guy anyway as he already is purportedly following a 500 calorie per day diet so would actually consume more after surgery? he's is in a very difficult position.
I don't think he is claiming he has a human right to wls but rather is claiming under one of the statutes-a right to a family life. I believe he is saying his health issues mean he cannot participate with his family and to be able to have that basic human right he needs the surgery so to be denied it is to be denied his Human Right.
It's all very complicated and serves to remind me of how blessed I am to have had this treatment in the current climate.
Let's be hoped he , and all those in need but denied, can get some help another way.

 

[Karlos]

i'm unsure if wls would really assist this poor guy anyway as he already is purportedly following a 500 calorie per day diet so would actually consume more after surgery? he's is in a very difficult position.

I believe he wants surgery as there would be a 90% chance that he would no longer have to take diabetic medication which he claims is the root of his obesity. There have been non obese people who have had an RNY because of diabetes.

I don't think he is claiming he has a human right to wls but rather is claiming under one of the statutes-a right to a family life. I believe he is saying his health issues mean he cannot participate with his family and to be able to have that basic human right he needs the surgery so to be denied it is to be denied his Human Right.

His legal team argued that by only considering medical factors his client's human rights had been infringed. They are a medical body, what other factors should they use that would still allow for consistency in who qualifies? How do you decide which family life issues are more important? The young woman who genuinely feels that if she had boobs four times bigger she would be able to attract a husband and thus have a family, or the guy too fat to play guitar? If they stop using medical criteria as the deciding factor then it becomes a matter of one persons opinion over another, recipe for disaster

If the trust loses this case and the NHS has to consider non medical factors to decide who qualifies for all surgeries because it could not be limited to just WLS once that Pandora's box is opened, then not only would more people die on the table who would previously have been refused on medical grounds, the fabulous institution that is our NHS would be bankrupt within six months.

I agree it should not be a postcode lottery the criteria should be national for both WLS and plastics post op, in fact all treatment criteria should be national. However I am clear in my mind that only medical reasons should be considered to decide who gets what. The NHS is provided by the state and we are chuffin lucky to have it, we do not have a human right to NHS care and if you think differently then ask the people in those parts of the world where if you can't pay you don't get it.

 

[Jrichard]

All I am gonna say is this.

In my PCT even though my BMI was over 50 and I had high cholesterol, high BP, insulin resistance, mobility problems I was not entitled to a bypass.

However I could walk up to my PCT and get a tummy tuck with a click of my fingers.

Personally I feel that life saving surgery should be included under the NHS, tummy tucks should be considered a luxury and obtained privately.

The PCTs are all a**e about face. Having said that, as I had to pay privately for my bypass I will have no qualms using the NHS for a tt.

I have paid NI since the age of 16, and have worked in the health service for over 12 years. Should I not get a return on my investment?

Just putting all this out there to further the debate.

 

[lamornamiss]

So are you saying he has the human right to WLS hun? He either meets the criteria or he doesn't. If he does and if the illnesses he has are a contributing factor I can see no reason why his PCT would have denied either his initial application and subsequent appeals. It is nuts that they will spend more money fighting this case in the courts than they would chopping his guts up, but they have to draw the line somewhere I guess. I've read a number of reports and some say he has 3 years, others less than a year, You would think that if he was that ill then surgery might be too great a risk anyway?

I used three BMI calculators and they calculated it at his height and weight at 39. Go figure. I really do feel for the old guy, but his lawyers who I guess are being paid for by taxpayers are only in it for the money and paying their bill will take even more resources from the public purse

The claim that his human rights are being denied because he doesn't meet the set criteria is just crap. There is a finite amount of money available and unless we are all prepared to pay more in tax and NI to give them more money to spend then situations like this will tragically happen.

No Karl I was just pointing out that you said that he needed a shed load of co morbidities
I think most PCT's would accept that diabetes and sleep apneoa as qualifying co morbidities let alone 13 medical problems and as you pointed out it would have been cheaper to fund surgery instead of fighting it through the courts

 

[Kevin1708]

A delicate and emotive area . . . should the NHS fund WLS ? I guess the man in the street would think that WLS is somewhat of an indulgence if the symptoms of obesity are indeed ‘self inflicted’. But then the NHS pays for cancer treatment where the cause if self inflicted (smoking), for the mayhem resulting from a drunken brawl and increasingly for (ileagal) drug related issues. I guess my answer is I just don’t know ! In the majority of cases one becomes obese almost through choice, might sound harsh but I am yet to read of anyone being force fed ! I know that ‘circumstance’ may dictate eating habits such as depression or some physical disabilities may prevent exercising but is it a lack of will power ? I have friends (yes, a surprise!) who amend their eating to stay ‘normal’, for example they eat less when not training - they view food as a fuel. I became overweight overnight, well maybe not overnight but I woke up one morning and though WTF has happened to me. Of course I knew the answer – I had drunk too much, ate too much and sat watching TV or on the laptop when I should have been exercising, walking or cycling – I had taken the easy option! Some say they have tried every possible way of losing weight and failed but what has failed the method or the participant? If you expend more calories than your intake your WILL lose weight – that’s a fact. Many of the WL programmes such as WW / SW and so on centre more on the intake (never did understand green days and red days, not that I have ever done this - but a calorie is a calorie irrespective of form and time of day). Surely, it should be a mixture of sensible moderate eating and a well thought out and regular exercise routine but this would not be as easy to market as a quick fix once a week group meeting (and remember they are all in it to make money). If we could find a way of enforcing a sensible eating and exercise regime then surgery would be a thing of the past which must mean in the majority of cases it is a lack of will power (and I hold my hand up no one is to blame for my weight gain but me).

Where someone is morbidly obese due to medication then why aren’t others who take the same medication after all we all tick the same more or less . . . how will restricting ones diet counter the alleged affects of the medication ???

I agree there should be a national guideline for surgery but then I guess some people would eat more to get there ! Perhaps there should be money invested in the psychology of eating and exercise and maybe the criteria should be more about the individual than an arbitrary BMI and location.

 

[Kevin1708]

Oh by the by, there will have been no additional cost the Guys PCT to defend the case as they pay into a form of Insurance Scheme to the NHSLA and in any event no costs were awarded against them. Tthe cost of the trial itself would have been hundreds rather than hundreds of thousands . . . I suspect the lawyers acting for the claimant will have been on a ‘conditional fee agreement’ (no win no fee) or if it was Legal Aid then it will have had to have been approved at all stages by the courts as being in the public interest. Cheers