diabetes and dumping???is there a link???

[lisa x]

I have been pondering again....!!

Right,I have been told there is no rhyme or reason why some folk dump and others don't...

Reflecting On a different thread and knowing different peoples history on here..there does seem to be a pattern I think..(or it could be a coincidence!)

I just wondering if you would humour me and see if my pattern is correct...

Me and Bev commented on an earlier thread on how some peoples dumpling sounded a bit like diabetic hypos and high sugars...

Well what I have noticed is that,people who was diabetic before the op and on medication (and now in remission) don't seem to dump.....(or dump mildly)

So my question is... if you are dumper was you diabetic before?????.(and is the experience similar to diabetic high/low sugars)

Or can the ex diabetics tell me do they still dump..and if so..is it on fats or sugars????

I will be interesting to see the answers to this..
Thanking you in advance. Lisa x

 

[chocolate moments]

I find what your saying very interesting, I am diabetic type 2
all I feel is tired when I have had sugar so I need to lie down and sleep
or I just push myself on and it passes but I haven't had my bypass yet
and the matter hasn't been discussed.
I have heard awful stories about dumping and what it is like can someone please put me straight, is it due to eating sugary things or just eating to much and what actually happens when you dump ???

 

[zns]

Im not actually diabetic but due to PCOS I am insulin resistant and it takes quite a bit for me to dump, will be asking if they have seen this link at my 3 month check.

 

[daftmoo]

I'm/was type 2, I dumped on strange things including nas angle delight, ww tom soup and some savoury things, now at nearly 6 months out, don't dump any more just get kicks in my pouch and have to lay down now and again, and I'm no longer on any diabetic meds now

 

[Bev]

Excellent Lisa and you and I will be watching and waiting to see for sure...

Just how many of our post oppers do dump and were diabetic...

Been wondering this myself, thanks so much for raising Lisa...

Love and hugs... xxx

 

[thinnerangela]

I asked this question of the dietician at my support group Christnmas do!! She isn't my dietician btw.

SHe was explaining dumping has nothing to do with insulin or diabetes - its more to do with the food going throught he digestive tract quicker than normal and in an undigested form - as it reaches the small intestine the digestive juices get to work and the sugar is absorbed more quickly. As this happens it upsets the water balance so reducing the blood pressure which causes the fainting and weakness. Can also cause the diarrhoea.

Possibly not explained this very well but I think this was the gist

It would answer why other procedures experience dumping ( like we sleevies aren't meant to but I have!!)

I was a type 2 insulin dependent diabetic (now resolved)

xxxx

 

[BeaBea]

Hi everyone, I read this post with interest too. I am just short of 3 weeks after having surgery. I am type 2 diabetic and still taking most of my medication. My blood sugars are consistant at about 6mmols which isn't low (quite good for me in fact). I have dumped and am very very wary now of everything I eat fearful that it might happen again as it is not very nice ... even discussing it with my Consultant he's said it's dumping too (what a word LOL). To add a little more, not only is it certain foods which make me dump, it's whether they are sightly hot as well so I tend to eat and drink just warm. I'd be delighted if it wasn't dumping, but if it isn't goodness knows what else it is.

 

[tray]

i was on insulin and a diabetic for 10 years before my op, since the op im off all insulin but still on metformin,even tho my levels are good,after my op i seemed to be able to eat any junk as in choc and crisps and stuff like that but find it hard to eat protein foods, but as i have lost weight i seem to dump more onchocand junk now, i was told it was because i used to be insulin dependent my body never had a rush of sugar but now my pancreas is working better the sugar intake is starting to make me dump, well something like that anyway ..lol

 

[angie790]

I study type II diabetes for a living. I won't bore you all with what I'm actually looking at, but I do do a huge amount of reading on this subject!

Dumping syndrome is said to occur when food moves too quickly through the hole (stoma) created at the bottom of the stomach pouch, leading into the shortened small intestine, or when a sugar-laden food has been consumed. This can trigger nausea, sickness, palpitations, sweating, dizziness etc.

Some research suggests that patients with type 2 diabetes who have a gastric bypass are actually more likely to suffer from dumping than those who do not have type 2 diabetes before surgery. However, it does appear that the majority of people who are type 2 diabetic before surgery, do not dump post-surgery, so I do not think this research is actually representative of type 2 diabetics who have WLS.

My arguement against this would be taking into account basic human physiology. Yes, dumping could be caused by food moving too quickly from the stomach to the small intestine, but what is the underlying physiological reason why it happens?

In non-diabetics, the body secretes high levels of insulin to counterbalance food intake, and in WLS patients, this can lead to a sudden swing from hyperglycaemia to hypoglycaemia, (high to low blood sugar levels), which is responsible for causing nausea, dizziness etc.

In type 2 diabetics however, the pancreas is much less responsive to food intake, and therefore secretes insulin poorly, so doesn't lead to dumping in the same way as non-diabetics. However, this may not always be the case, as a few diabetics do badly dump...this may be down to how long they had diabetes before the op. People who were relatively recently diagnosed (maybe in the last couple of years) may be more susceptible to dumping than those who for example, have had type 2 diabetes for 10 years or more.

That said, we are all different in how we respond to different food types after surgery, and what some people can tolerate, others can't, type 2 diabetic or not.

 

[Bev]

Thanks Angie, that's very interesting and if you have any articles information that you might be able to advise us to read, I'd be very grateful and I'm sure Lisa and everyone else would too...

Great to hear you are so informed and thanks so much precious.

Love and hugs xxx

 

[Big an Bouncy]

I read when you eat sugar/carbs the small pouch cant handle it and a massive rush of insulin kicks in,in proportion to the stomache you had to the one you have now,it is a lot of insulin.Also something about the size of the outlet valve on the new pipework,best to ask a doctor and not speculate.To make sure you get the right answer.Differing tales on the tinterweb!

 

[Big an Bouncy]

There you go!

 

[lisa x]

I have heard awful stories about dumping and what it is like can someone please put me straight, is it due to eating sugary things or just eating to much and what actually happens when you dump ???

Hun..there are so many posts on dumping..its easier to say..put "dumping"into the search button on here...
the reason I say this..is one person can dump on sugar..another on fat..and another on anything ...just for the hell of it!!!!
Dumping effects are shaking /heart racing/tiredness/loose stools/sweating/vomiting
Which to me sound similar to high or low sugars for us diabetics(but from what I gather its more extreme)
I think Angela summed up why it happens best(thank you Angela)...that is what I have been told too..

Im not actually diabetic but due to PCOS I am insulin resistant and it takes quite a bit for me to dump, will be asking if they have seen this link at my 3 month check.

Please keep me updated on what they say....
It does seem a coincidence....
.thanks hun x

To add a little more, not only is it certain foods which make me dump, it's whether they are sightly hot as well so I tend to eat and drink just warm.

Thanks hun for sharing..
thats interesting...it could be because you are still healing hun...I wonder how many others have had this issue..I am sure one of the post oppers will comment on that hun xx

Been wondering this myself, thanks so much for raising Lisa...

Bev...I knew you would like this question..
It has been interesting answers so far huh..

I dumped on strange things including nas angle delight, ww tom soup

Sue,,these are the hidden sugar things that seem to catch everyone out...thanks for the info(and the headsup regarding ww soup!)..glad your off your meds hun...Interesting to see you did/do dump though...

but as i have lost weight i seem to dump more onchocand junk now, i was told it was because i used to be insulin dependent my body never had a rush of sugar but now my pancreas is working better the sugar intake is starting to make me dump,

Thanks Tracey...
That's interesting...before I was on insulin I would have major sugar rushes(head sweats etc)....now I am on insulin it is more controlled...so it will be interesting to see what happens in the future...
Why are you finding proteins hard to eat hun..I have seen this in other threads you have posted.??
You are looking Fab in your picture hun...I have a little smile to myself every time I see it.


Thank you everyone..great replies so far...keep them coming...

 

[angie790]

Thanks Angie, that's very interesting and if you have any articles information that you might be able to advise us to read, I'd be very grateful and I'm sure Lisa and everyone else would too...

Great to hear you are so informed and thanks so much precious.

Love and hugs xxx

Gladly Bev....I've got loads but I'll try to find some that are 'easy' to read.....no offence intended to anyone but I read them for a living and some are just awful, I can't make sense of some of them so it would be pure torture to subject any of you to them!!!!

I've also got some good general ones on the pros/cons of WLS, common complications of the different types of WLS (including things like nutrition & vitamin deficiencies, benefits of weight loss before surgery, and reconstructive surgery after WLS for things like jelly belly, bingo wings etc). I'll gladly send anyone the PDFs if they are interested. xxxx

 

[Bev]

Brilliant thank you Lisa and so helpful.

Angie thank you so much and thanks for your help.

Love and hugs everyone xxx

 

[lisa x]

Thanks Angie...


I think there is such varying degrees of information,that it is hard to research...what one consultant says differs from another....same with the dieticians...
*sorry forget to add..I would love any info you have regarding diabetes and WLS.. xx

 

[angie790]

Thanks Angie...


I think there is such varying degrees of information,that it is hard to research...what one consultant says differs from another....same with the dieticians...

Totally agree, hon. The web can be a good resource, but for purely scientific content, it can be quite dangerous to take things as read, as anyone can post anything, without it being verified or policed in any way.

There are many good scientific journals that are peer-reviewed and that are freely available on the web, but tbh, as you quite rightly say, everyone had their own opinion on things, even down to the surgeons & PCTs, so my advice would be to be guided by your own consultant & GP. If they've got their heads screwed on straight & offer good support & aftercare, then they will be the people looking after you the majority of the time, so go with their advice xxxx

 

[zns]

Interesting angie, thats about the jist I have of it, Im rather rusty with my biochemistry though its been a while since I was at uni.

 

[lisa x]

Totally agree, hon. The web can be a good resource, but for purely scientific content, it can be quite dangerous to take things as read, as anyone can post anything, without it being verified or policed in any way.

There are many good scientific journals that are peer-reviewed and that are freely available on the web, but tbh, as you quite rightly say, everyone had their own opinion on things, even down to the surgeons & PCTs, so my advice would be to be guided by your own consultant & GP. If they've got their heads screwed on straight & offer good support & aftercare, then they will be the people looking after you the majority of the time, so go with their advice xxxx

Thanks Angie..
You always have fantastic advice to us preoppers..I really appreciate it .x

This is why I thought I would ask this question here...
It does appear that the Long term Type 2 have lesser issues...but I cannot find any research on this matter online..(very frustrating!)
I have not got to speak with my surgeon yet...but who I have spoken to at the hospital have advised me wisely and given me good leads in terms of researching diabetes and WLS and clinical trials..



I wouldn't take the answers on here as that what will be either...but I just wanted to throw this question out there to see the replies...

 

[angie790]

It does appear that the Long term Type 2 have lesser issues...but I cannot find any research on this matter online

The reason for this is bascially that the longer a person has type 2 diabetes, this means they have ever-increasing insulin deficiency and ever-decreasing beta-cell mass....in essence the amount of insulin their body secretes gets lower and lower. In adults, once beta-cells are lost, they basically cannot be readily regrown, so even with WLS, the amount of beta-cells they have doesn't increase, therefore simply insulin production cannot increase. However, if someone is pre-diabetic or recently diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and had WLS, essentially beta-cell mass has not declined enough that once almost permanent hyperglycaemia is reversed, coupled with a change in diet (i.e. lower saturated fat intake), then the beta-cells can compensate. xxxx